*WARNING: THIS POST CONTAINS GRAPHIC PHOTOS OF POOP*
*CHICKEN POOP. NOT HUMAN POOP*
When last we met, Cuddles had a very small problem with maggots trying to eat her alive. Such an inconvenience. She got off easily because the majority of animals who suffer from flystrike die. The only reason Cuddles made it through is because I happen to work from home and spotted it right away. I also happened to have antibiotics on hand that I could give to her immediately. Had these two things not have been working in my favour, Cuddles would most probably have died. Again.
Once she got over her flystrike episode she was feeling great, running, bouncing and bullying. Bullying is a good sign in a chicken. It means they're feeling happy and healthy when a chicken has the energy to divebomb another chicken's wattle for no apparent reason.
Then this happened. (poop picture coming up)
For those of you who don't know, that's not what chicken poop normally looks like. This is what chicken poop normally looks like.
If it's hot out and the chickens are drinking a lot, their poop will be watery, or if they've eaten a lot of greens it might be green ... but generally a healthy chicken poop looks like the above photo. The white is urine and the poop coloured stuff is poop.
So there are two things wrong with the poop in the first picture. It's very watery with only a tiny bit of "poop" in it. That means she's drinking, but isn't eating. Watery stool in general means she isn't feeling well. The other issue with the poop are the yellow blobs in it.
Those yellow blobs are COOKED EGGS. Yes. Yes they are.
That means that a) Cuddles is laying eggs internally and they've given her an infection which has given her a fever which HAS COOKED THE EGGS INSIDE OF HER.
Cuddles. My little microwave chicken.
In that one poop I found 5 eggs. Granted, they have no shells, but they are eggs.
You can see that more clearly when I cut the larger egg open. You can very clearly see the "white" surrounding the "yolk". And you can also very clearly see that it's cooked.
Would you like to save this stuff?
The second I saw this I knew she was going to need antibiotics again and right away. She was so sick and lethargic and just feeling awful. So right away I syringed some antibiotics into her and fed her things she loved and I knew she would eat. Tomatoes, corn, mealworms, pedicure toe separators. Yeah. The pink spongey ones. It happened about 2 years ago.
But after a few hours she didn't even want to eat mealworms so I had to make a gruel out of her feed by grinding it up and mixing it with water. I syringe fed her 5 times a day for two days. By that time the antibiotics I was also syringe feeding her made her feel much better and she was eating on her own. I kept her on antibiotics, syringe feeding them to her 4-5 times a day for 5 days.
Making sure an internal layer has food in them is important for two reasons. Eating keeps them alive through nutrients obviously, but having food inside their little stomachs allows them to have something to pass. The more they're pooping, the faster and easier time they'll have getting rid of the eggs that have built up inside of them.
This is all just experience talking by the way. I'm not a vet, have never been a vet and could never be a vet. Unless the only job I had to do was syringe feed chickens.
Or extract a puss filled abscess on a cat. I can do that too.
Also if you need any small home dental work done, I've experimented with that too but I wouldn't recommend hiring me because I'm not very good.
For the first couple of days I let Cuddles roam around the backyard by herself so she wouldn't be bothered by the other chickens. She moved around and scratched in the dirt. As soon as I put her back in her run she went to the furthest, darkest corner and laid down looking like she was just waiting to die. But I wasn't going to let that happen. At least I was hoping I wasn't going to let that happen.
One of the ways you can instantly tell if a chicken isn't feeling well is her wing position. A droopy wing signals lack of strength and energy. The same way you get droopy when you're sick, a chicken gets droopy. The top dotted line shows where Cuddles wing should be. It should be tucked up nicely against her body. But it's hanging low. In this photo she was sick, but not so sick she couldn't ruin my shot by walking away. So the picture is blurry. In case you hadn't noticed. I'm good at pointing things out like that to you.
Which brings me to the point of this post. I've read about a certain hormone therapy you can put a chicken on. I read about it on Backyard Chickens. Then, a reader commented that their wife is a vet and uses this hormone therapy on her own chicken.
The drug is called Suprelorin and was originally made for ferrets. It's an implant that's placed in the chicken's breast, or under the wing. The implant releases hormones which stop the chicken from laying eggs, therefore preventing infection from internal laying, the end result being healthy hen. However, there isn't a lot of information on it and it's experimental in chickens.
It definitely isn't anything my regular vet is familiar with. He helps me with Cuddles the odd time doing fecal tests and prescribing me antibiotics for her. But big farm animals are his thing so he doesn't know what to do with something that isn't likely to hoof him in the head.
I now have a local cat vet who is also a chicken owner and poultry judge looking into it for me. I'll report back with what he finds out. (he's also starting a magazine dedicated to poultry and other avians which I'll introduce you to later)
So Cuddles is on the mend for the moment, but isn't laying eggs because she probably will never lay eggs again. Oh, and Josephine is broody once more. As is Mabel. And Cheez Whiz is moulting. So that means I'm getting exactly zero eggs a day.
I wish I had known this whole "no eggs thing" was going to happen all at once.
For one thing I'd have made those last eggs of Cuddle's last a lot longer. Lipsmack.
*Postscript* After writing this post I got an email from the vet who found out the drug is not available in Canada. Which is kind of heartbreaking. He says it's possible to import the drug, but at a cost of $100 just for an import license (or something like that). Then there's the cost of the drug and finding someone who can implant it successfully and repeatedly. I've asked him to look into it further.
I've only owned large dogs - pit bulls, ridgebacks, labs, etc. and had never brushed their teeth. Which turned out fine as they were outside dogs and evidently brushed their own without me knowing. Then I moved inside city limits and now have a tiny 6 pound yorkie poo poo. (father is mini-poodle/yorkie and mom is mini poodle) If you Google pics they are adorable and stay little and don't shed. She is almost ten and weighs a healthy 7 pounds. All this to say, little dogs need their teeth brushed and I didn't know that. So now she has infection, broken teeth, and horrible breath. I recommend everyone getting any animal - look at suggested care no matter how many you had before, as breeds change the equation. Karen is great example of good animal owner - I am not. Take my first hand failure and learn, please. If your not up to the challenge, then get a different animal. Its way better than loving something that loves you back and know you have failed them.
I started reading your blog because I was looking for chicken coop ideas (and I LOVE your coop) for the coop I was hoping to build next spring for my soon to be flock of lovely little chickens. But. As I told my guy just yesterday, the more I learn about chickens the more I realize I am not cut out for chicken keeping. This - and the flystrike - confirms it. Don't feel bad! The whole reason I wanted to have chickens (besides the fact that they are so cute!) was for the eggs, and it seems to me that it will be a lot easier to keep doing what I'm doing now - get them at the farmers market from a guy that I know personally and I have seen his coop and how well he takes care of his brood. So, thanks Karen, for making me see reality! I am, however, now a committed reader of your blog (sometimes it's the highlight of my day - is that sad?) and that will stay the same.
Nope, not sad at all as far as I'm concerned, lol. That's good! Part of the reason I do these posts is so people can see what keeping chickens is actually like. It's not all running through meadows and fluffy asses. ~ karen!
Well, I do appreciate that, as I'm pretty sure I did think it would be all fluffy asses. Keeping chickens is apparently a lot more work than I thought! I think with a full time job, two dogs, a very high maintenance cat, a garden and a ton of pond fish I have enough to do right now. I,
unfortunately, am NOT a superwoman. Sad face. But at least I'm realistic, right?
I think you deserve a medal.
Karen:
You might want to check out this website. The FAQs are terrific. Terry's "spa treatment" sounds like it might help. We've used it a few times on our hens...
http://hencam.com/henblog/
Just as an aside, we were adopted by what appears to be a mallard hen. She waddles around after my 8 hens, gets into their run and messes up their water, and generally annoys the girls. VERY funny. My kids are hugely entertained and we all love that silly duck....
Cheerio!
Hi Alana. Yes, I actually had a back and forth with Terri of that blog when Cuddles was first sick a year ago. She didn't think things looked very good for Cuddles, but we proved her wrong. ;) She wasn't counting on my persistence or Cuddles. She was very nice and helpful. ~ karen!
Luckily I already hate eggs (the taste and smell of them, not the shape and lovely colors they can be) because after this post, I don't think I could ingest them even if they were my favorite food. Maybe this none of your chickens producing eggs at the moment is a good thing, but you've obviously got a much stronger stomach than me and most everyone else. You seriously rinsed them off and dissected them. Wow. Are you sure you're not a vet?
On the other hand, I'm so sorry to hear Cuddles is having more health issues. Please do keep us posted on Cuddles. Verbally works for me.
Tiny gods, I thought I was superhuman by brushing my cats teeth and making their food. I bow and scrape.
Whoa...you ARE superhuman! I love my beasts but I love my fingers more....
So sorry about Cuddles and round 3 of life threatening conditions. I have decided that the sweeter a chicken is, the more likely they will be the one who will have every trouble imaginable. But any nasty chicken will survive and survive for many many years. My brown leghorn, Brownie, is a mean flighty thing. She was almost entirely scalped by something this summer while I was gone to Florida. The girl watching out for my animals did what she could but for 2 days Brownie was not even cleaned up or sprayed with an antibiotic. When I got home, she was a hot mess. We could see muscle over half her head and down her neck. On the other side of her half ripped off comb, we could see skin, but no feathers. I cleaned her up and sprayed Blu-Coat on. Then kept her isolated for almost 2 months while those feathers grew back. She even kept laying during some of it. And now you wouldn't know a thing had been wrong and she is back being boss of the barnyard. Healthy, happy and mean as the day is long.
But my sweet white Jersey Giant can not walk right and rarely lays an egg. She lives with 2 other babies up in another small chicken run. She will come get bugs from my hand and even lets me pick her up. Sometimes she really gets lame and just sits on her own for a couple of days before she improves again. Someday I will go out there and I will know the time has come to do what I must do. What others might have done sooner. But for now Miss Snow is happy and makes me happy
It almost sounds like she could be laying internally too, Ann. They do have trouble walking and sometimes breathing because they have so much egg fluid built up in them. ~ karen!
I think I'll wait a little while before I have my coffee this morning.
I'm sorry to hear poor Cuddles was under the weather again. Please keep us posted on the hormone thing.
I wonder how many people will do what I did and heed your warning about the graphic pix... I just skipped straight to the comments. Surprisingly, I could figure out the whole post by reading the comments, and I got to eat my breakfast without hurling. No poop pictures for me. Blechhh!
Hope everything works out with Cuddles...we are all rooting for her!!! You are such a good chicken mama Karen!!!
I really, really thought I needed Backyard Chickens, but after all this, I realize that perhaps all I need is the awesome coop... Perhaps I could fill it with fluffy Guinea Pigs instead!
Poor little Cuddles :(
Ah Timing. I was just crunching into toast and crunchy peanut butter as I scrolled down to the graphic poo shot. Thanks Karen for making my breakfast reading so 'interesting'. Heave Alert would definitely more useful than the rather bland admonition Contains Chicken Poop. I know chicken poop. I thought I knew chicken poop. That was gross. And the fact you separated out the 'cooked' eggs so elegantly to get them in a neat shot in a descending scale of size made me laugh. Boy oh boy, you are dedicated to this Blog. And to Cuddles. But I can tell you that moving house and emptying sixty boxes of random possessions was a whole lot more fun than the way you spent your weekend. How on earth am I going to eat a boiled egg ever again?
You aren't leaving my French farm are you? 'Cause I might have more questions I need answered in person. At a French farm. ~ karen!
Fear not, I'm not leaving the French farm until I'm well into my dotage. The thought of you Popping By has not frightened me so much that I am selling up!
We just moved addresses in London where I am obliged to mooch for ten days a month.
Heh. I had just reached the beautifully lined up eggs when I looked down and realised I was busy peeling eggs. Chicken eggs. Cooked chicken eggs.
It gave me a moment. :-D
you are very patient and perservering with Cuddles!! any lessor person would have had Chicken Roast by now!!!
I'm a vet, and an occasional chicken vet to boot, and I'm quite impressed with your chicken hormone knowledge! Way to take care of your feathered girls!
Thanks Sandi. Because chicken vets are so rare, anyone who has backyard chickens has to be prepared to immediately become their own chicken vet. Seriously. If someone had told me owning chickens would result in handpicking maggots off a hen's butt ... !!! ~ karen
Oh, how awful for you and Cuddles. Hope she's better soon. Please give her a cuddle from me.
Praying everything works out for your sweet Cuddles!
WAY too graphic for so early in the morning! And the "lipsmacking" comment at the end almost made me heave!
I do however, hope that Cuddles makes a full recovery...
No I'm off to find something pleasant to replace the images in my mind! :)
Excellent! I love getting a reaction. Just for you, only pretty pictures for the rest of the week. I think. ;) ~ karen!
Well, Karen,
I can't believe the coincidental timing of this post and Cuddles' dilemma. I have had the exact same problem with several of my hens, usually resulting in them having to go to the big chicken coop in the sky. In fact, it happened a few months ago to my most adored, big old commercial layer, Selma. She was about 6 and a half years old, so I decided to let her go. However, last December it happened to my daughter's tiny 2 year old bantam girl, Bocconcini. She is very tiny, not much bigger than a pigeon, and after looking unwell for a couple of weeks, it was discovered she had been laying internally for months. I decided (at great financial cost) to go ahead with a full hysterectomy and hormone implant treatment (for the hen, not me). The amount of gunk they extracted astounded even the specialist avian vet. Poor little chook! Anyway, after a horrible operation and a couple of weeks recuperating indoors with our elderly guinea pig, she bounced back like a little champion. It's now been 8 months, and I noticed a few days ago that she has started making little nests about the place. Apparently time for a replacement hormone implant. I'm taking her in tomorrow. I can report that although there have been no more eggs (they were only about the size of a ping-pong ball anyway) the treatment has been very successful and we've had our happy little chook back.
Good luck with Cuddles! I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for her.
Thanks Therese! I'm so happy to hear from another reader that has used it. My understanding was you didn't need to have an operation, just the implants. But maybe I'm mistaken. :/ In fact I thought that was the point of it. That you could get the implant and not have to worry about a hysterectomy. Uch. SO glad to hear Bocconcini is doing well! ~ karen
Hi Karen,
Unfortunately for Bocconcini I hadn't realised what was going on soon enough and all the eggs were actually still in her body cavity. Poor thing was bloated, couldn't poop or even walk very well.
Also - I just double checked with the vet and the implant she's having replaced tomorrow is the Suprelorin that Cynthia mentioned.
Hope you've caught it quick enough and Cuddles doesn't need the op!
Therese
I haven't noticed any bloating in her chest at all (which is where they commonly have to be sucked out of by a needle as you know). I just hope I can get the medication here. My vet just discovered it isn't carried in Canada but he's looking into importing it for me with some special license. Thanks again for the information! ~ karen
You know I get excited when we talk about Poooop or Poop ( the Aussie pronunciation)...sounds like 'put'.
So, I got onto Dr Google and found that Suprelorin is made in Australia, in Sydney. I rang them hoping to be able to obtain an implant for Cuddles and bribe you with it held in my hot little hand.
No such luck yet. The nice lady who can tell me if you need a prescription for it or not, is not available and will ring me back later. Her name is Michelle Murdoch from Virbac Peptech.
I did however, find this huge document about the use of it in dogs. I thought you might find it interesting.
http://www.lowchensaustralia.com/breeding/suprelorin.htm
It's used as an alternative to castration.
Apparently, they have tried whacking it into everything from monkeys to lions and it does just fine and stops them producing any kind of reproductive hormone.
I used to offer a similar treatment to my second husband, but he did not see the benefits or the humour in it.
I'll let you know what Michelle says.
You did whatttt??! I can't believe you'd go and do that for me. I'm very, very touched. As it turns out the drug is not available in Canada. I only found that out yesterday (after I'd already written my post). Apparently it's possible to import it but expensive and no vets around here have any experience with it. The guy I have looking into it though has promised he'll order it for me if I want him to. I told him to check on complete costs but yes .. I believe I'd like to go ahead with it. Thank you again. Honestly. ~ karen!
Okay. Michelle must be busy and I don't want another restraining order, so I asked another lady and she told me to try Provet, which is the Wholesaler for Suprelorin in Aus.
Here's their website .http://www.provet.com.au
Your vet would have to contact them. They would only give me an email address, no direct exporter contact number. Grrr!
sales-qld@provet.om.au
They do export it, but it needs to be kept in the fridge. This lady did not want to tell me the secret vet business secrets of how that could be done.
Anyhoo, this info might help your guy who is helping you.
If they are unhelpful, it might be possible to find a vet over the border in US , if others on here have got their hands on it.
Apparently, it comes in a 6 month and a 12 month implant. You would think a chicken would only need half an implant at a time due to body size.
She may be ok to wait a little while for it to come in, as she has got rid of the blockage.
Just another thought.
I can't stand it when pharmaceutical solutions are made hard to get.
Ask your vet guy, why it would not work to give Cuddles Progesterone. I might be crazy, but I thought that would stop her ovulating and it comes in a cream form. If it would work in chickens, You could rub some on her butt every day.
It would make her cranky as progesterone is the cranky hormone, but it's worth a brainstorm.
There is a chicken rescue here in MInnesota and they sterilize all the chickens, all the time. They have a Facebook page called "Chicken Run Rescue". The owner is well educated in all things chicken, but she is kind of a nazi about sterilizing them. You might be able to PM her to get more info on how they do it, but I'm pretty sure they use the implants.
"Lipsmack"- AHAHAHAHA...ew